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The Pastor's Heart with Dominic Steele
Christian leaders join Dominic Steele for a deep end conversation about our hearts and different aspects of Christian ministry each Tuesday afternoon.
We share personally, pastorally and professionally about how we can best fulfill Jesus' mission to save the lost and serve the saints.
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The Pastor's Heart with Dominic Steele
Chris Braga: The missing principle of proclamation
Proclamation is for every Christian, one’s Christian faith is always public and a command is not needed to link faith to speech.
'I believed therefore I spoke' - That’s what the Apostle Paul says in 2 Corinthians 4:13. And yet it’s a verse hardly referred to in the last few decades in discussions over who is responsible for evangelism.
Chris Braga of Grace West Anglican Church Sydney told the Nexus Conference in Sydney that 2 Corinthians 4:13 shows that there’s a spiritual reflex that internal faith (in the crucified and resurrected Jesus) will challenge fear and lead to speech.
Not because we’re commanded, but because we can’t help ourselves.
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I believed and therefore I spoke. That is what the Apostle Paul says, and Chris Braga drew it to our attention at the Nexus Conference in Sydney a week or so ago and it was one of those mic drop moments he thought hang on, that's in the Bible. Why have I never seen it? I've preached on that passage but I've not noticed it before. Why hadn't I thought about that? It is the pastor's heart, it's Dominic Steele, and thanks for joining us. Chris Braga is with us, senior pastor of Grace West Anglican Church in the West of Sydney, and he gave the opening Bible study at the Nexus Conference, focusing on 2 Corinthians 4, verse 13. Now, chris, let's go to your pastor's heart, and you made the observation, looking at this passage, that there's really a spiritual reflex, that internal faith in Jesus, his death and resurrection, which will challenge fear and lead to speech.
Speaker 2:Well, dominic, thanks, it's great to be here, and it was actually verse 15 that got me first thinking about this part of the Bible, this more and more, the more and more, actually, just thinking about our church and the vision of our church to see more and more people transformed by grace, and just thinking about the gospel going out and you're thinking of Grace West Church. Absolutely Grace West. More and more people Transformed by grace, and so you actually then read that verse in context.
Speaker 2:I've been reading the bits before it. So you've got this picture of the gospel going out, and how does that happen? And what's going on in Paul's life? And this is what happens when you're reading the Bible is you get a quote from the Old Testament and often you just skip over it.
Speaker 1:Well, skip over it. I'm embarrassed. You and I were at a conference 10 years ago and I was speaking on this passage and you were there. And I looked at my notes last night and I just kind of blurred through these last few verses.
Speaker 2:It's because there's so much good stuff in 2 Corinthians and I think you know, when you've got a ministry conference or something, there's a lot of other places to go, like chapter 5, there's, you know, even verses 1 to 12. There's so much good stuff in 2 Corinthians, but verses 13 to 15 is another one of those amazing parts of the Scriptures.
Speaker 1:So give us verse 13.
Speaker 2:Okay, verse 13. What's going on there is Paul's outlining a principle which is just that faith leads to speech. There's this direct connection between the two.
Speaker 1:I'm just going to read it. Yeah, it is written. I believed.
Speaker 2:therefore, I have spoken Since we have that same spirit of faith. We also believe and therefore speak. Paul has the same experience as the psalmist and Paul's quoting from Psalm 116, verse 10. And for the psalmist it's almost this throwaway line. He's going through a really difficult time and he says I believed when I spoke. We'll put that up on the screen I believed when I spoke.
Speaker 1:We'll put that up on the screen. I believed when I spoke. I trusted in the Lord when I said.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just a temporal picture of what's going on, but then Paul quotes it and underlying that kind of temporal experience for the psalmist is this logical connection. It's a clear logical connection in the Greek.
Speaker 1:What's the Greek there?
Speaker 2:Epistousa dio illa lesa. So I believed, therefore I spoke, and there's this connection between what's going on in your inner person and then what happens as you speak, and it's such a human experience of what it means. What's going on in my inner life takes form as I express it into the world. And for the inner life of the believer there's so much going on with the gospel, and so the gospel has just captured Paul's heart. You see it in verse 14, this message of the resurrection of Jesus. So, for we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you. So the resurrection is just what's captured. Paul is his message and he speaks it, he believes it, he knows it's going to be powerful for the listener to hear, he knows that his life is secure and so he just speaks. There's another thing that gets inserted between faith and speech that kind of enables him to speak. It's this message of the gospel that he just is captured by and then tells others.
Speaker 1:Now. I mean I was preaching on Sunday on the Great Commission. We finished Matthew's gospel, another great passage. Yeah, we got up to there and go make disciples and I spoke as if this was Jesus' command to this room here and in the question and comment time that followed, somebody said how can you be sure that this is not just Paul speaking to the 12, to that generation? What makes you think he's speaking to 21st century people all these years later? Now I found myself going to 2 Corinthians 4.13, because you taught it to me just a few days ago, but there has been debate and discussion over this those commands in the New Testament, like the Great Commission and whether or not they do apply to us, but this really short-circuits all of that, doesn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it does. And look, even the Great Commission is based on a faith-based response. That is all. Authority in heaven and earth has been given to me. Therefore, go and make disciples If you don't believe that Jesus is the one who rules over the world you're not going to go, and has all authority.
Speaker 2:Jesus is the one who rules over the world. You're not going to have authority. Yeah, it's because of that that you go, and so it does have elements of command, but it's in the context of this faith-based response, and certainly the conversation, and you kind of can boil the Christian life down to commands you could look at it that way but it actually devoids the whole experience of what it means to be expansive in your Christian life, to think about virtue, to think about how you respond to God in an expansive manner, and frequently in the New Testament what we see is people's response is of this expansive view of speaking, of speaking about Jesus, and certainly this direct connection means we don't have to find another connection, we don't have to find a command. The experience of being Christian is one where your inner life is just filled with Jesus, and so therefore, it shows itself in what you have to say. Now what?
Speaker 1:surprised me was that you showed us that you'd gone and checked the various mission textbooks that we've looked to over the last couple of decades, and 2 Corinthians 4.13 is not there in the end notes.
Speaker 2:Look, I'm surprised and since giving the talk at Nexus I've found out some others that have, and that's great because obviously it's been a stretch, but let's go through the big ones, the big ones. Peter O'Brien. Peter O'Brien Peter O'Brien's relatively short book. It was first published as Consumed by Passion, I think it was called, but Gospel and Mission in the Writings of Paul. He doesn't mention it. John Dixon John Dixon, quite a substantial work based on his PhD.
Speaker 2:His PhD yeah, doesn't mention it. We've got Longnecker, longnecker and I'm just going through the Moore College Library and I'm thinking these guys, they're not referring to this passage.
Speaker 1:The Father of the New Perspective EP Sanders Doesn't refer to it Kosten, berger and O'Brien Salvation to the Ends of the Earth. Which?
Speaker 2:is trying to do a different kind of work across the whole Scripture, so it's a harder thing to deal with everything, yep.
Speaker 1:Missionary Paul theologian.
Speaker 2:You'd think it would be in there, which it is, but those few verses don't actually outline the principle that's been to. This principle of faith leads to speech, gospel to the nations.
Speaker 1:There's a chapter in there.
Speaker 2:You'd expect it to be in there and about the theology of Paul from 2 Corinthians, but it's not referred to In those verses, it's not discussed. And early Christian mission yeah, this one was surprising. It's two great big volumes and there is a discussion in there on this passage. But there are six points that he makes and none of them relate to verse 13.
Speaker 1:You then looked at ten popular mission books yeah, piper Little Packer, john Chapman, the Gospel and Personal Evangelism, the Sam Chan one that came out a couple of years ago, john Dixon, again Richard Koken, rebecca Manley-Pippitt and Rico Tice.
Speaker 2:And Look, there's lots of parts of the Bible. You don't have to look at 2 Corinthians 4.13.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I never had before either.
Speaker 2:But you know, I think what's interesting is that the argument that's been I've looked at other bits of 2 Corinthians 4, but not that. The argument has been oh, the logic of the gospel says you know, you should speak about it. And a lot of these books will have a section about who is evangelism for, and it's for everyone because of the logic of the gospel. And they're actually going through what Paul is doing in 2 Corinthians 4.13, but they're not making it explicit, whereas 2 Corinthians 4.13, it has it on a plate.
Speaker 1:Yes, so many times we've gone to. Is there a command for evangelism rather than does it flow?
Speaker 2:out of my trust. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Paul's saying it flows out of that experience of faith. There's a great quote from Calvin in his commentary. Well, let's go to the commentaries.
Speaker 1:You were checking Harris and Calvin, so let's go Calvin first. What does Calvin?
Speaker 2:say, yeah, calvin's got this great quote. I think Calvin describes things this way quite regularly, so there's nothing unique in one sense. But he describes faith as the mother of confession. That is, confession. Speech about Jesus is going to be something that is given birth by faith. It comes out of faith, and so Calvin summarises the verse and the concept that way Murray Harris, murray Harris, so faith leads to speech is directly lifted from his commentary.
Speaker 1:Summarises the verse and the concept that way. Murray Harris, murray Harris, two Corinthians commentator.
Speaker 2:Faith leads to speech is directly lifted from his commentary. So I'm not claiming anything original, I'm literally just working my way through some of the commentaries. Excellent commentary on Two Corinthians, and he identifies this as not just Paul's having a similar experience to the psalmist, but that this principle is what Paul is focusing on, this theological principle that faith leads to speech. And that comes from Murray.
Speaker 1:Harris, and you did find it in a couple of popular level books, gibbs, I think you said yeah, so I found it in. And then this other one from the Central Coast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so a more recent work, but Gibbs 1973, just a little line, and that a confident I'm sorry, a firm conviction produces a plain confession, and so he's basing that on 2 Corinthians 4.13 as an encouragement for evangelism. And a more recent work, and it's something that's been drawn to my attention the last couple of weeks and I'm trying to think of the name of the book Believing Out Loud.
Speaker 1:Kevin Simpkin. Oh, kevin, okay, thank you.
Speaker 2:And you know I need to have a look at that book, but it's something that hasn't informed our conversation here in Sydney really for the last. You know I need to have a look at that book, but it's something that hasn't informed our conversation here in Sydney really for the last, you know, 20-odd years.
Speaker 1:And so really, I mean, this was the big surprise to me and I love it when you say ah, that's a correction to my understanding of God. And I've been going along and here is a whole. I mean, as you say, it was implicit there. I thought it was in the scriptures, I thought it was the heartbeat of God, but now I've got a verse that says it's the heartbeat of God that I hadn't noticed before. And that's been missing from my knowledge of God until the last fortnight.
Speaker 2:I think the challenge and this is quite confronting is that I became a Christian when I was 16 and you think, oh, I trust Jesus, but the whole Christian life is trusting God and trusting God in a new situation. So what does it look like to trust God when you have really bad medical news comes to you? Am I going to trust God there? Or a relationship's failing am I going to trust God there? Or a kid's gone off the rails am I going to trust God there? When it comes to speaking about Jesus, we all know that experience where I should have said something but I kept my mouth shut because I feared something. I didn't want to be rejected, my job was in jeopardy, I didn't want to stick out, I didn't you know there was a risk, and so I kept my mouth shut about Jesus. And courage is not the absence of fear, it's realising there's something bigger than the fear that I have, and that experience of balking back is saying well, I don't trust Jesus enough to actually say something about it.
Speaker 2:And Paul, regularly, what he did was he saw, it was just captured by this message of the forgiveness of sins, the hope of heaven, the resurrection, and so, in spite of incredible opposition and incredible persecution. He just kept speaking about Jesus. I mean, people thought he was crazy. You know what I mean, agrippa and Festus, you know you're out of your mind, paul. You're trying to persuade us to become a Christian and he just was so captured by this, and I think that that's the challenge is, this is an opportunity actually for Christian growth. This fear.
Speaker 1:And like am I going to say something about Jesus or not? I mean, I guess that's the point, isn't it? What about when I'm Christian? I'm struggling to speak because I am frightened. How do I? What's the challenge to me there from 2 Corinthians 4.13?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not, and we're not talking about strategically working out what the right time to say is, or something like that, but there's just times when your fear trumps your faith, and so you pray that God would give you the strength to say something and you say the thing. And that's going to mean different things for different people in different contexts, but it's a faith-growing exercise at that moment, and we all know those moments yeah, implications.
Speaker 2:I shared a bunch of implications at Nexus. There are a few others I had, but the first one was that evangelism is for everyone, because we're all people of faith. Christians are people of faith, and so the idea that we all have opportunities to speak about Jesus and that's a natural thing. It's not a command thing, as it were, but it's. You know, you love Jesus, you love people, and if you are someone that trusts, you're now someone that speaks.
Speaker 1:Now, when you say evangelism is for everyone, you're not just saying evangelism I'm cooking the meal for the evangelistic dinner. Evangelism I'm paying the money to pay for the evangelist.
Speaker 2:You're saying evangelism for everyone speaking, speaking something about Jesus and speaking something about the faith, it will look different in a whole bunch of different ways, just even letting people know that you're a Christian and having an opinion about Christ or an explanation of why you're doing things because you trust Jesus. There's going to be those opportunities to actually link the things you're doing in life to who Jesus is and what he's done.
Speaker 1:Now you are at this point pushing into and pushing against the PhD thesis of John Dixon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's an element of John's work which was really trying to, I think, identify if there's a command for Christians to evangelise and, in one sense, wanting to not burden people with things they shouldn't be burdened with and I respect that. You know the Pharisees burdened people with laws that they shouldn't and, you know, didn't lift a finger. And so John's conclusion was that, as he looked, he saw that there wasn't even a minor duty placed upon the believer to share the gospel. I think we've got the quote up there.
Speaker 1:I'll read it to you. Contrary to the conclusions of PT O'Brien et al, the proclamation of the gospel never appears as even a minor duty of Paul's converts. Paul usually portrayed believers as passive in relation to the preaching of the gospel. They were those who had merely received the message and now obliged to live in faithfulness, ethically or confessionally to it. That's page 311.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there's some truth to that that if you are looking for a command, you're looking for that sense of duty. There isn't one, and I think what I said at Nexus was that because it's the wrong category. The category that's described in verse 13 is this category of faith, of faith leading to speech, of being so captured by Jesus that there's a natural element of just. It leads to what you talk about. If you're passionate about something, you talk about it and that's the character this belief category is.
Speaker 1:it's more Well, it kind of transcends something that I do. Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 2:It's now outside the realm of command. So if you're looking for a command, you won't find one because it's the wrong category for thinking about it, the category of faith leading to speech. It doesn't require a command. You're so captured by the gospel, captured by who Jesus is, that it's the natural thing to do to speak about him.
Speaker 1:Next implication Christianity is always public.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it means that we, you know, as people of faith, we don't shut up about it. We're the kind of people that love to tell other people about the message, despite the opposition, despite the difficulty, despite the challenge, despite the personal cost and sacrifice. And so to be Christian and claim to be Christian and then not speak about Jesus is just seen as an oddity in the New Testament. You know, to be Christian is to be someone who's captured by this message and wanting to share it with others.
Speaker 1:I mean you had some implications there for Christian organisations, old sandstone schools, those kind of places.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think there's a temptation to say look, there's part of the Christian life which is doing good to others, that's the fruit of the gospel and we'll just compartmentalise that off and it means we're not expressing what it means to be Christian in that experience. We're just compartmentalising social action or running a school or running something like that. That we need to be not merely moralistic, but we actually need to be evangelistic and explain why we do what we do. The reason we educate children this way or the reason we provide this service or something like that, is because we believe that Jesus is Lord, that he wants us to love others and he wants to have a relationship with you.
Speaker 1:So it's not just that I do the good thing. I need to show you that it's because of my faith that I'm doing this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that would be a natural thing to do, to say I'm a Christian, because I'm a Christian, I want to love you and look after you, or I want to, you know, kind of educate you in a particular way.
Speaker 1:And therefore you said and again, this is a bit of a kind of penny drop moment if we're not evangelising, then actually you're making the charge that there's a more foundational problem with our faith. Yeah, that's the challenge, I think that's the challenge. You're making the charge that there's a more foundational problem with our faith.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the challenge. I think that's the challenge.
Speaker 1:I mean that's controversial.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think that we imagine ourselves to be grown-up Christians. We imagine ourselves in the Diocese of Sydney. Like you know, we're really the faithful people. We trust Jesus, we trust the Scriptures, but when push comes to, shove.
Speaker 1:So the bedrock of orthodoxy is not I believe these things. The bedrock of orthodoxy is, I believe, and it flows out from me Well it's a test of faith.
Speaker 2:You know, the whole of life is testing that faith. You think about 1 Peter, your faith refined by fire. You know, will faith hang on to the end? Will you trust God in this new, difficult situation? You know Job or you know Jesus himself. He's got to trust Jesus in this new situation. And so, presented with a situation of am I going to be silent about Jesus or speak about Jesus? What am I going to do? What am I going to do with that? And is my faith? How strong is my faith in the Lord Jesus? You know, even if people are going to kill me, am I going to still speak about him? My family was reading about Stephen. I mean, he was just picked to serve tables and here's a guy with this opportunity to speak and he speaks.
Speaker 1:He doesn't stop, he doesn't, stop, he doesn't stop In fear.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right. And so he believes in the resurrection of the dead. He's confident of what God's going to do, and so he speaks. It's staggering, it's impressive, but that's the character of every Christian person is that we trust Jesus with our lives, and so we'll speak in different ways, but the idea that this message is something that others need to hear as well.
Speaker 1:Now it's two weeks since that conference. What's the feedback interaction you've had, because 300 ministers heard you that day.
Speaker 2:Look, I think that for people it was certainly an encouragement to think about what we do as ministers, because we're in a faith-building exercise and really to in one sense, own that problem of evangelism.
Speaker 1:And if I want to see my church grow as an evangelistic place, the key thing is actually maturity, a right understanding of maturity of my people.
Speaker 2:Look, the wrong thing to do is to say you should evangelise more. That's just putting laws on people. That's putting rules on people. The thing we need to do is just capture people's hearts with just how magnificent Jesus is. I mean, that's the challenge. So, as we teach the scriptures, we want people to be captured by just how wonderful he is, how secure their life is in Christ, the significance it means to have your sins forgiven, to have a right standing with God all of these things that we teach in the scriptures. That people are so captured with that that this is just the defining thing about their lives and they see the need for other people to hear about that in a massively real way. That, then, that faith-building exercise, is what then equip people for speaking about him.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for coming in and talking to us, dominic. Thank you, chris Braga has been our guest. He's the senior pastor of Grace West Anglican Church in the west of Sydney. This has been the Pastor's Heart. My name's Dominic Steele. We'll look forward to your company next Tuesday afternoon.
