The Pastor's Heart with Dominic Steele
Christian leaders join Dominic Steele for a deep end conversation about our hearts and different aspects of Christian ministry each Tuesday afternoon.
We share personally, pastorally and professionally about how we can best fulfill Jesus' mission to save the lost and serve the saints.
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The Pastor's Heart with Dominic Steele
Roadmap to reset Anglican Communion - with Paul Donison and Glenn Davies
Roadmap for a reset communion - with Paul Donison and Glenn Davies
The chair of Gafcon Laurent Mbunda and chair of Global South Justin Badi Arama are to meet to work out a roadmap for the resetting of the Anglican Communion.
Global South Anglicans have endorsed the Former Sydney Archbishop Glenn Davies call for the communion to be reset on biblical foundations. The Global South have called on their Primates to work with the GAFCON Primates Council and other Orthodox leaders to reset the communion on its biblical foundations as a matter of urgency.
In other Anglican news.
- The Church of England General Synod is meeting in York. They are considering whether to press go to move towards the next stage of endorsing their bishops’ proposals for same sex blessing. Orthodox Anglicans united under a banner called The Alliance are calling for structural differentiation in England (essentially a new province). The Bishop of Oxford has hit back telling The Alliance to take a running jump.
- Orthodox Anglicans from across Australasia gathered in Brisbane last week. New daughter churches are being planted within the fledging diocese of the Southern Cross.
- A new Archbishop appointed to lead the Anglican Church of North America. Steve Wood will replace Foley Beach.
- A collective meeting of orthodox leaders in Cairo has met for a week on ways that faithful christians might be able to reset the Communion. The Global South Anglicans met in Cairo the week before that and voted to call for the chair of the Global South Justin Badi Arama to work with the chair of Gafcon to reset the communion.
Our guests are new General Secretary of Gafcon Paul Donison and new Bishop of the Diocese of the Southern Cross (and former Archbishop of Sydney) Glenn Davies.
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it's the pastor's heart and dominic steel. And what next for the global anglican church? We focus on the uk, the usa, australia and the big global south meeting in cairo. The new general secretary for the movement of global anglicans, gafcon paul donison, is with us in sydney along with the Movement of Global Anglicans. Gafcon Paul Donison is with us in Sydney along with the Bishop of the New Australian Diocese of the Southern Cross, glenn Davies.
Speaker 1:We have news today on the resetting of the Anglican Communion on biblical foundations as a matter of urgency. It's six weeks since we last spoke to Paul Donison and here are the headlines of the last six weeks. Within the global Anglican Communion One. Right now the Church of England General Synod is meeting in York. They're considering whether or not to press go on the move towards the next stage of endorsing their bishops' proposals for same-sex blessings and, in response, the Bible people united under a banner calling themselves the Alliance. They're saying there needs to be structural differentiation in the United Kingdom, essentially two separate churches, but the bishops look to be dismissing that. The Bishop of Oxford has hit back at the alliance, telling them to take a running jump.
Speaker 1:Number two Orthodox Anglicans from across Australasia gathered in Brisbane last week. A highlight from that conference is news of new daughter churches being planted within the fledgling diocese of the Southern Cross. Number three in North America. We saw a new archbishop appointed to lead the Anglican Church of North America the week before that. Steve Wood will replace Folly Beach. Number four there was a collective meeting of Orthodox leaders from around the world in Cairo attempting to work on the way for the faithful Bible Christians to work together to reset the Anglican communion. And then, number five, it was the week before that a meeting of global South Anglicans. It was that group that the GAFCON Kigali Conference had passed the ball to to do the detailed work on the resetting of the communion. Paul Donison, there is a reason coming out of Cairo for our pastor's hearts to be warmed.
Speaker 2:I think there is Dominic, in fact, with all of the news, even within the Church of England, because we're seeing even our brothers and sisters there who are standing for the faith, having yet another reason to be unified together and work together for the sake and the cause of Christ in this generation. So I think it's good news across the board. From my pastor's heart, what I'm most excited about and encouraged by is that we still have GAFCON moving forward with strength, with the Lord's provision to be this biblical reset for Anglicanism around the world. The people are still being drawn in and excited and looking to GAFCON to say how are we going to do this? How are we going to organize ourselves to be willing to stand up and pay the price, to bear the cost of what it means to be Orthodox in our generation? So I'm encouraged.
Speaker 1:So let's go back in the timeline to six weeks, five weeks ago, to Cairo, the meeting of the Global South, and then there was a number of other people and actually there was a key moment, and we'll bring Glenn Davies in here you moved the motion on reset on the last day. Tell us about that.
Speaker 3:Glenn Sure.
Speaker 3:Thanks, dominic. The Global South was going to have its first assembly, which it did under its new constitution or new covenant, the Cairo Covenant and we thought that, especially after the opening address of the chairman, archbishop Justin Barty from South Sudan, who mentioned the Ash Wednesday statement of 2023, significant statement for the Global South about resetting the communion so we thought there might be more work, but there wasn't. But on the last day, I moved a motion which was passed substantially across the Global South members and to encourage the Global South primates to work with the GAFCON Primates Council and other Orthodox leaders to reset the communion on its biblical foundations as a matter of urgency. As you've said. That was passed and there is now. I think that there's a new energy with regard to the collaboration and cooperation between GAFCON and Global South, which I think the perception of many people has been that they're going in different directions or different organisations, but there's a great overlap of primates. There are eight primates out of the 11 in Global South, eight out of the 12 in GAFCON who are members of both.
Speaker 1:We've got actually a Venn diagram that you sent me a couple of days ago. We'll pop that up on the screen and just speak to that diagram for us, certainly.
Speaker 3:Well, that Venn diagram shows that you've got about 25 provinces in the historic Global South and the whole movement from 2019 onwards is to make the Global South not geographically identified but theologically identified. So they now have a theological fundamental doctrines, if you like, in the Cairo Covenant, which is much like the Jerusalem Declaration and so thoroughly orthodox Anglicans. And yet only 11 provinces out of 25 have been signed up members to what's called the GSFA Global South Fellowship of Anglican Churches. So they're hoping for more to join, but places like South Africa, which is very liberal, are not going to join that. They're not going to sign up to those fundamental declarations.
Speaker 3:So what we'll find is that I don't know how many of the historic Global South will do that, but eight GAFCON provinces with their archbishops have joined the Global South Federation New Cairo Covenant and there are not all the GAFCON. There are another four who haven't and you'll see that in the diagram, so that we're working together. But if you put those two circles together, so it's basically 15, then that's 85% of the Anglicans around the world and I don't think people at the Church of England seem to understand that. Or they don't want to know, or they just want to ignore it with their declining numbers in church attendance in England. But this is where the strength is so resetting. The communion is going ahead and that's great news for Orthodox Anglicans in old established churches or in new churches.
Speaker 1:Now, Paul, that Friday morning at the end of the Global South Assembly, Glenn was obviously moving the motion you were watching. Do you want to just describe the debate and the outcome and that kind of thing from your perspective?
Speaker 2:Well, I think what was important was actually what happened earlier that day was Archbishop Kanishka got up and preached that morning.
Speaker 1:That was an awesome talk for me, and it was of all the talks.
Speaker 2:Well, sam Ferguson from the Falls Church and the ACNA spoke about human sexuality and gender identity earlier in the week and that was by far the strongest teaching moment in the week.
Speaker 2:And then Kanishka got up and spoke and it was electrifying. I mean it was as if Kanishka said all the things that we were waiting to hear through the week were waiting to hear through the week, and I think that that was the foundation and the setup then for how the meeting ended, where we were able to then have this resolution talked through and debated and discussed. And seeing it go through, I think, was a relief for many Because, again, as Glenn has said, there was a lot of perception going into these meetings that there was these divergent paths of GSFA and GAFCON. By the end you had Kanishka get up and state all the things that GAFCON would say right there at a GSFA event. Everybody was amening and alleluing and then we passed this resolution that said the two were going to work together, reset the Anglican Communion, matter of urgency, biblical foundations, and so we all went away and said, well, that was a good meeting, but there's a reason to go to Cairo it.
Speaker 1:And so we all went away and said well, that was a good meeting, but there's a reason to go to Cairo. It was amazing Right Now you went straight from that Global South resolution into the following week and still in Cairo, but just down the road into a meeting with. It was a smaller meeting of workshopping the detail of what to do. Glenn, do you want to unpack that for us?
Speaker 3:Yes, it was about 20 people and there were only four primates and one from South America representing the primate who wasn't there. Then there was Paul and myself. There were members of Mission Partnerships Andy Lyons was there from Antigon Church in Europe and Stephen Hale from IFAC, International Chairman and Frontiers, a mission organisation, CEC, from Church of England Evangelical Council. So it was a good group, very harmonious group, and let me say that Justin Barty was very warm towards us and he said he openly said what's the future of this Orthodox leaders' meeting? Where do we go from here? How do we do that? And we were all able to express our views in a collaborative, constructive manner and we see the outcome of that, basically that we know that the Chairman of Global South, Justin Barty, and the chairman of GAFCON, Laurent Mabanda, from Rwanda, they will be meeting together shortly and I'm sure they'll be issuing some kind of statement or communique about the way forward. So that was a wonderful outcome, Wonderful outcome.
Speaker 1:Can I just say why didn't that happen straight after Kigali last year?
Speaker 3:I think the answer to that question is personalities and personalities from the past. One of the most interesting things that Justin Buddy people may well know that the Global South and GAFCON didn't meet together in 2008 in Jerusalem. There were strong personalities on both sides and there was some miscommunication I believe best way to express it and there's been that sort of tension there. What Justin Barty said, the chairman of Global South in our meeting was let's put the past in the past, let's have a new day, let's not go back, you know, and look at what the problems were in the past. Let's work together into the future. And that was a very encouraging which was affirmed by other people around the room. Bishop Malcolm Richards was also there, the Archbishop of Sydney's International Relations Bishop and also Regional Secretary for Oceania in GAFCON. So I think that that's good.
Speaker 3:Look, if you look at the Reformation in Europe, there were problems between Zwingli and Luther. There were problems between Busser and Luther. There were problems all over the place, and personalities always, shall I say, entangle problems and we want to disent, entangle problems and we want to disentangle those problems and try to work relationally, winsomely, graciously, with the desire to glorify the Lord Jesus. That's where our pastor's heart is all about.
Speaker 1:So we're expecting reasonably soon Justin Bhattiarama and Laurent Mabunda to meet up and take us forward.
Speaker 3:Yes, they're both busy men, don't forget. They're both running provinces and dioceses. They've got a lot of things on their plate, but this is an important thing. I'm sure they will do that within the next month or so.
Speaker 2:This was the key of getting them together to talk. That was the request coming out of the smaller meeting after Cairo. So we'll wait and see how that comes together. But the key is, I think as well, we had expectations, a lot of us going into the GSFA assembly. It was the first assembly, it was the ninth trumpet and the first assembly. So even in saying that, you recognize, there's questions of identity. What is this? Is this the ninth trumpet? Is this the first assembly?
Speaker 2:And the answer is yes, it was both, and many people came into the assembly with the expectation that day one, the first night, there'd be sort of a drop in the gauntlet.
Speaker 2:Here we go we're going to reset the communion. What we realized through the week, though, was that GSFA, having its first meeting real first assembly was doing a lot of the work of saying how do we elect officers, how do we organize and structure ourselves now as a confessional body rather than the historic geographic body? So we realized within the first 24 hours that the meeting in Alexandria for the assembly was really about resetting the global south, and instantly people said, well, what about resetting the Anglican communion? And we were told right away well, that happens next week in the smaller meeting, all right, and we were told that's what was discussed at a Kigali, and so I think part of it, this has been the perception over the purpose of the meetings, and so, praise the Lord, gsfa has a clear direction of where they are as far as their reset's concerned. We've now had this other meeting, and now it's up to the two chairs to meet up and get the two bodies working together.
Speaker 3:I think one of the things about the resolution is that the Ash Wednesday statement was signed by most but not all of the Global South primates, and that was a watershed statement in 2023, which fed into the Kigali commitment in Kigali in Gafkon 4 in 2023, which fed into the Kigali commitment in Kigali in Gafkon 4 in 2023. Now what the motion did was that the assembly now the people on the ground, clergy and laity, as well as bishops, agreed with the Ash Wednesday statement. That was very significant. So it wasn't just primates led, it was groundswell led With the First Assembly. This is what we want to see, so it strengthens Archbishop Justin Budde's hand.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cool. Let's turn to the General Synod in England, which is meeting right now, and what are your hopes and prayers to come out of this meeting in the next 24 hours?
Speaker 2:Our prayer is that there would be continued growing unity amongst the biblically orthodox to know a way forward. Our commitment from GAFCON has been to walk alongside and strengthen those who are contending within the historic structures. Gafcon has always said we are here to support the Orthodox within and without the historic structures. And so, as we look to General Synod, our prayer is that the Orthodox will continue to see with clarity what is and is not possible going forward and then to be inviting GAFCON in at their invitation to how we can support them in the days and weeks and years ahead. I mean again as we tie in with all the work that's being done on the reset of the Anglican Communion. Of course this ties directly in with the Church of England, but it's important that we let those on the ground figure out what is the way forward.
Speaker 1:Now we've had a couple of people submit questions. Here's one from Jason Ward to you, paul, one you won't forget us who are standing for Christ's truth in this denomination, will you? What do you need from us so that you can remain in fellowship with us while we stay and suffer for the gospel in an apostate denomination, and what can we do for you to help you prevent your churches from being likewise assaulted?
Speaker 2:No, that's a great question. Well, I'll say it was to Jason, right To Jason, the absolute affirmation that no, we're not going to abandon you, you're not alone. We've been with you from the beginning. We hope we've been with you with our ups and our downs, but we are remaining committed to contending with you. I think what we are hoping we can do is continue to be sitting at the table with you as partners in prayer and in strategy and then waiting for your invitation for us to come in and say here's how GAFCON may or may not support us in practical ways. And so, I think ongoing fellowshipping continue to keep us at each other's tables, making sure that these folks contending from within continue to come to GAFCON conferences, be fully engaged, talk about GAFCON, support GAFCON, be GAFCON churches and diocese well, if there are such dioceses, but be GAFCON people and continue to invite us in so that we can partner together.
Speaker 2:But again, we're not going to GAFCON's, not going to come in and tell the Church of England Evangelical Council here's what we think you should do. Nor tell all those contending within the Alliance what to do. That wouldn't be invited. We wouldn't want to do that. We want to listen faithfully to those on the ground. What do you hear the Lord calling you to? And then how can we support you?
Speaker 1:I hope that helps answer that when you've been watching a little of the Church of England Synod, and I mean we're having this conversation Monday afternoon, sydney time. It's early Monday morning in the UK and the big debate is going to take place in the next few hours. But what do you want to say to the faithful Bible people?
Speaker 3:It is clear that the bishops are not going to follow the law of Christ. They're not going to follow the commandments of Christ, which is what the Great Commission is all about. In making and maturing disciples. They can only be described as false shepherds the way they're taking the Church of England down this track. My prayer is the laity and the clergy will stand firm against their bishops, as Jeremiah stood firm against the high priest of his day. And where you've got bad leadership, the people of God must stand firm. That's what we need to do. So I pray for the bishops to repent, but there's been no sign of that. There are, of course, a few you know faith godly bishops there.
Speaker 3:Like in Australia, we have 10 noble bishops and 13, sorry, 13 ignoble bishops in terms of general synod counts. So we need to pray for those noble bishops in Church of England that they will actually stand firm and try to bring convincing arguments to stop this road to destruction and that's what it is and to return to the biblical faith and to the teaching of Jesus with regard to sexual immorality and to endorse sexual immorality. That is just. It's opposed to what Jesus says. It breaks the heart of God. Not just the pastor's heart, but the heart of God. Not just the pastor's heart, but the heart of God.
Speaker 1:Bishop Martin, who is the chair of the Church of England Living with Love and Faith Committee. He, in response to a question, said and I'll just read it and then get you to respond I'm not sure that the House doesn't acknowledge the existence of those who cannot agree to disagree. I think it's a question rather more of an understanding. I guess that there are people for whom this is a very, very deeply held in terms of conviction. But then the following question of what do we do with that?
Speaker 1:My desire is that such people should have a place within the Church of England, but if inevitably, if that's to be the case, there will have to be some shift from an understanding that says we cannot simply agree to disagree. So that's what we're trying to do within the current motion to create something which I hope will allow as many people as possible to stay within the Church of England. If there's those who feel this really doesn't work, then there's not a lot I can do about that. Which really he's saying if you can't come with us, then take a running jump.
Speaker 3:This particular bishop whom you've named, has. No, he's not for turning, he's not going to shift, he's not going to change. But unfortunately, the Lord Jesus says those who are not with us are against us. But the problem is he's not on the side of the angels. And for him to therefore declare that the conservatives, those who have held the same doctrine of Christian doctrine for 2,000 years, and this recent novel revisionist development, somehow must take the ascendancy because the bishops think so, is just appalling, if not egregious. So I think that it's a very sad day.
Speaker 3:I watched part of the live video from the General Synod last night, as a matter of fact, and one of the questions was to some bishops on a panel who's going to address the elephant in the room? And the elephant in the room was the letter from the Alliance which you mentioned. The Alliance, of course, was asking for a third province, a parallel province across York and Canterbury for conservative Bible-believing and Bible-obeying Christians, and the three bishops completely obfuscated that question. They gave no answer whatsoever. They fluffed around in typical, shall I say, english prose that it was just an anthology of old English prose. That's what it was prose being professionals in that orbit.
Speaker 3:So that sense in which the elephant in the room remains, of old English prose. That's what it was prose being professionals in that orbit. So that sense in which the elephant in the room remains and no one's going to acknowledge it. No one's going to talk about a third province Now there are all kinds of legal issues about that but at least have that debate. You've got a general synod, this very significant letter from a large number representing a very large number, despite the Bishop of Oxford's foolish remarks about how small the number is. So that's the issue and tonight's debate or Monday's debate in York will be very interesting to see and that's where our prayers for the clergy and laity to stand firm against their leaders, you think, in terms of Ezekiel's reference to the false shepherds and how, basically, god's judgment is going to come upon those who take the people of God in a direction other than that which the Lord Jesus has directed Paul.
Speaker 2:I think there's always going to be these moments of inflection where the faithful have an opportunity to listen, well, prayerfully, ask Lord, what are you in this moment saying to the church? What does this moment mean? And I think our prayer about everything that's going on in the Church of England right now in the general set of debates, is that the faithful, with great, great numbers of unity, would see together the same thing. And we don't know what that's going to be, but we have our own personal thoughts and opinions. But I certainly remember back in 2000, 2001, 2002, when all the New Westminster debates were going on, despite all of the outcry from around the Anglican community about what Michael Ingham was about to do with same-sex blessing of unions in New Westminster, again he ended up proceeding, going ahead. There was tons of prayer, what's going to happen? And he went ahead. And when he went ahead, clearly undeterred, there was a walkout. David Short, ji Packer, so many others, finally said enough's enough.
Speaker 2:You know, 2003, with Gene Robinson, same thing. There was even a greater. It was almost as if New Westminster had prepared the global church to be prepared and better state their opinions. And again the outcry globally was enormous about the Episcopal Church not confirming the election of Gene Robinson as a partnered gay man as the bishop of New Hampshire. In that case, and of course, after all the discussion and all the debates and all the protests, they went ahead and again it was another inflection point. And not long after that we obviously had GAFCON form, we had the ACNA form and the rest. I can't predict what's going to happen out of this particular debate in General Synod, but my prayer is that there would be clarity, clarity and discernment among the faithful of what does this moment mean?
Speaker 1:Let's turn to Australia and Australasia then, and last week, the big GAFCON conference in Brisbane. What were highlights for you, paul, as somebody coming to GAFCON, australia or Australasia for the first time?
Speaker 2:It was a joy to come and meet folks I had spoken with and obviously seen at other conferences like Kigali and before, but to spend time here and see what the Lord is doing and see how Australia and all of Australasia, sydney, particularly now with the Diocese of the Southern Cross have been so pivotal and foundational for GAFCON I mean so supportive. It was amazing to show up and have such a welcome and so much encouragement and to see really what's reflected within the GAFCON conferences happening right here. It was a huge encouragement. I think the highlights were obviously seeing the Diocese of Southern Cross as a new diocese forming. I was able to preach at one of their churches. Glenn invited me the same morning that that same church was launching out a planter that same day I mean within two years, less than two years formed.
Speaker 2:Here they are planning another church, Seeing that DNA of church planning and mission built right in, and it reminded me in many ways of the way the Canadian church felt 15, 16 years ago when we were all coming out of the old structure. I mean it very much felt the same way. I thought I'm with my people and that's why Canadians and Australians, I think, get along very well. That's right.
Speaker 1:How much for you, Glenn, last week.
Speaker 3:Well, I think what Paul said. Two years ago we had our GAFCON Australasia conference in Canberra and it was somewhat surprising. It caught us on the hop a bit. But the very day before the conference began Peter Palmer at Beanley and Logan left his church and started a new church on that very Sunday. So we basically launched the Diocese of Southern Cross in the week of the conference and got all kinds of media exposure with regard to that. Since then we've been growing at a new congregation every two months and our 11th congregation began on Sunday afternoon this week and the 12th congregation will be some Sudanese in Perth Right and that is coming in the next couple of months.
Speaker 3:So I met the guy there at the conference. So there is a real enthusiasm and an enthusiasm to see church planting. Now we've got no money, we don't own any buildings, but that's what the first century was all about too. You realise the church building didn't come to the second century. So I tell my people you've got to wait at least half a century before you get a building unless the Lord blesses you with some resources to do so.
Speaker 3:So there was a great. We had 100 people in our Darts of Southern Cross.
Speaker 2:Southern Cross the first.
Speaker 3:Southern Cross. This is the first time we've had because we've got people in Cairns and across in Mandurah in Western Australia and mostly in Brisbane, but also in Sunshine Coast, and also we have an online worship service which covers around Australia. So there's about 20 people in that week by week. So there's that sense of enthusiasm with regard to seeing the gospel go forth and in our mini conference we talked about what it would look like in five years' time Would we have 30 congregations in five years' time or more? And that excitement was just palpable and for me, as the interim bishop of the Diocese of St Croix, my wife is very keen to make sure that interim doesn't become permanent and in due course we'll hold a synod.
Speaker 3:He's doing pretty well and then we shall elect a new bishop and move forward. But the people on the ground are just so enthusiastic. It was wonderful Ex-Uniting Church people becoming Anglicans. They were on the platform, so I felt very much welcomed by that. And, of course, the GAFCON conference itself was wonderful. We had Archbishop Stephen Tan from Myanmar was there. We had some bishops from PNG as well. They came late because of visa problems and Australia's terrible systems, but they were there and so the senior bishop was there with Jay Behan and Stephen Tan in the community service on the last day. So it was very exciting, it was uplifting, and can I say that once again, our Archbishop of Sydney, kanishka Raffel, gave another excellent talk in that week which, just you know, just encouraged the saints enormously.
Speaker 2:And what I told Beanley Logan and I mentioned, I think also with Peter Judge Mears' congregation later in the afternoon with Stephen Tan was I said this is again the fruit of what GAFCON does. Gafcon is doing things. Gafcon is not just talking about orthodoxy and about caring for those who feel thrown out and marginalized, but we're actually forming new extra-provincial structures. I mean the ACNA, brazil, cca, the Anglican Network in Europe there are three dioceses now and Southern Cross and also Communio Messianica with our Muslim background believers.
Speaker 2:And what I told them as well, I said you may feel very small right now, but here's what's wonderful is you get a full seat at the table of the GAFCON Primates meeting. I mean what we've made a decision is that our extra-provincial lead bishops, our advisors, full advisors, along with people like Kanishka and James Wong and others who are sitting as advisors at the primates table, they get their own bishop there speaking right in. So though they may feel very small, fledgling, very weak, sort of a 2 Corinthians 12. In fact, that's what Stephen Tan preached on. Was you know the weak things of this world? There they are being raised up and seated at the table, so having a tremendous impact on global Anglicanism. This very small new thing, but yet huge, enormous impact.
Speaker 3:And I should add too that we had some great talks from Mark Urngy, lecturer at Moore College on Anglicanism, taking us back to the Reformation, understanding what our DNA is, and the talks the Bible studies were given by Mike Dicker from Youth Works College and he encouraged us to intergenerational. So 18-year-olds and younger all came to the conference free and there was a special program for them. Colin Buchanan came along and gave a wonderful concert for young and old and there was an intergenerational feel about the conference that our children matter, that's the upcoming generation.
Speaker 1:Thanks so much for coming and talking to us.
Speaker 2:It's been a joy.
Speaker 1:Thank you, my guests on the Pastor's Heart Paul Donison, the General Secretary of the Global Anglican Movement, gafcon, and Glenn Davies. Glenn, of course, the inaugural bishop, the interim inaugural bishop of the Diocese of Southern Cross my name's Dominic Steele. You've been with us on the Pastor's Heart. We'll look forward to your company next Tuesday afternoon.
