The Church of England has abandoned the teaching of Jesus with prayers for same sex blessings potentially to start before Christmas.
‘Tragic’ says Gafcon.
‘Disastrous’ says the Global South.
‘Deeply Troubled’ says the Church of England Evangelical Council
‘First order difference requires first order differentiation’ says Vaughan Roberts
‘It is hard not to dissolve into a flood of tears’ says the Mark Thompson the principal of Sydney’s Moore College.
‘The Archbishop of Canterbury should resign’ - says the Church Society’s Lee Gatiss.
The English General Synod has crossed a line that evangelicals across the world had been praying and hoping would not happen.
The General Synod expressed its support by a tiny majority of just a few votes for the continued implementation of the House of Bishops proposals to change the position and practice of the Church of England with regards to sexual ethics and marriage.
We now expect the English bishops to commend prayers of blessing for same sex couples by mid-December (and provide dedicated services soon after), to prepare guidance which will make it possible for clergy to marry their same sex partners, and that future ordinands will not to be asked to indicate whether their lifestyle and personal relationships are in keeping with the doctrine of the Church of England.
Vaughan Roberts is one of the UK’s leading evangelical ministers within the church of England. Vaughan is senior pastor of St Ebbes in Oxford.
http://www.thepastorsheart.net/podcast/vaughan-roberts-on-english-synod
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Become a regular financial supporter of The Pastor's Heart via Patreon.
The Church of England has abandoned the teaching of Jesus with prayers for same sex blessings potentially to start before Christmas.
‘Tragic’ says Gafcon.
‘Disastrous’ says the Global South.
‘Deeply Troubled’ says the Church of England Evangelical Council
‘First order difference requires first order differentiation’ says Vaughan Roberts
‘It is hard not to dissolve into a flood of tears’ says the Mark Thompson the principal of Sydney’s Moore College.
‘The Archbishop of Canterbury should resign’ - says the Church Society’s Lee Gatiss.
The English General Synod has crossed a line that evangelicals across the world had been praying and hoping would not happen.
The General Synod expressed its support by a tiny majority of just a few votes for the continued implementation of the House of Bishops proposals to change the position and practice of the Church of England with regards to sexual ethics and marriage.
We now expect the English bishops to commend prayers of blessing for same sex couples by mid-December (and provide dedicated services soon after), to prepare guidance which will make it possible for clergy to marry their same sex partners, and that future ordinands will not to be asked to indicate whether their lifestyle and personal relationships are in keeping with the doctrine of the Church of England.
Vaughan Roberts is one of the UK’s leading evangelical ministers within the church of England. Vaughan is senior pastor of St Ebbes in Oxford.
http://www.thepastorsheart.net/podcast/vaughan-roberts-on-english-synod
--
Become a regular financial supporter of The Pastor's Heart via Patreon.
It is the pastor's heart and Dominic's deal. And it is hard to wrap your head around the significance of the Church of England general-centered decision last Wednesday afternoon to abandon the teaching of Jesus Christ with prayers for same-sex blessings in Church of England churches to potentially start before Christmas. Tragic, says Gaffcon. Disastrous, says the Global South. Deeply troubled, says the Church of England Evangelical Council. It is hard not to dissolve into a flood of tears, says Mark Thompson, the principal of Sydney's more theological college. The Archbishop of Canterbury should resign, says the Church Society's Legatus.
Speaker 1:Just when you thought that the problems in the Anglican Communion couldn't get any worse, justin Welby, the House of Bishops in England and the Church of England general-centered have done it again. It was last Wednesday afternoon that the Synod took the vote and crossed a line that evangelicals around the world had been praying and hoping would not happen. The general-centered expressed its support by a tiny majority of just a few votes for the continued implementation of the House of Bishops' proposals to change the position and practice of the Church of England with regard to sexual ethics and marriage. We now expect the English Bishops to commend prayers of blessing for same-sex couples by mid-December and to provide dedicated services soon afterwards to prepare guidance which will make it possible for clergy to marry their same-sex partners, and that future ordinances will not be asked to indicate whether their lifestyle and personal relationships are in keeping with the doctrine of the Church of England.
Speaker 1:Vaughn Roberts is one of the UK's leading evangelical ministers. He is senior pastor of St Ebb's in Oxford. Vaughn, I take it that as somebody who has served the Lord Jesus for most of your adult life as a senior minister in an Anglican church, in a Church of England church, it must have broken your pastor's heart to be there, as the general-centered made that decision last Wednesday afternoon.
Speaker 2:It was certainly very grieving All those reactions we heard earlier. They echo my reactions In many ways. I think the decisive moment was in February and what happened in November was general-centered ought to be said by a very, very narrow margin, saying to the House of Bishops carry on. So February was the time when the direction was said, so there was a preparation. I think, sadly, I was ready for it and it is very, very grieving certainly.
Speaker 1:For those who haven't been following closely, it was a very close vote in the House of Laity and Clergy, but pretty overwhelming in the House of Bishops.
Speaker 2:Yes, it was, although one encouragement is that, whereas there were only four bishops who voted against in February, that has gone up to ten and I think what's happened has been clarifying If anyone was in any doubt in February that what was being presented was a very, very different trajectory, away from the Anglican Union, away from the Scriptures, away from the unbroken tradition of the Church and into something which is going to cause a deep, deep division. If anyone's any doubt in February there was no doubt in this synod and that steeled an extra six bishops to say we can't do that and that's a significant thing and I praise God for their conviction and courage. But then you're right in the House of Clergy, very, very small minority. In the House of Laity it was just 104-4 and 100 against, so it's within two votes. So all is not lost and it means that the Church of Israel is split right down the middle.
Speaker 1:And people are saying that the mushy middle within the synod seems to have divided, dissolved, disappeared and really there are now much firmer views on one side or the other. Was that your read of the room?
Speaker 2:Yes, certainly. The House of Bishops gave, as a justification for what was going on, I quote, a pastoral provision for a time of uncertainty. I don't think it is a time of uncertainty, really, if you listen to the speeches at Synod, very little uncertainty, if any, was expressed. I think a better description is a time of competing certainties, and that there are few in the middle now and that there are those who say, no, we must stick where we've always stuck, and the Bible is clear on sex and marriage and we mustn't depart from it. And there are others who are saying, no, we must, to varying degrees. We must change. And so what do you do about that? It's not as if we're trying to decide where to go. I think two different groups have decided that they need to go in radically different directions. So the call of the Archbishop's to us to walk together. Well, you can't walk together if you're walking in two completely different directions.
Speaker 1:I was watching Sarah Malali, the Bishop of London, in her speech and reply in the debate and she, it seemed to me, was wanting to downplay the theological significance of the move. She was stressing it's not in the creeds, but unity is an issue that's in the creeds.
Speaker 3:None of us underestimate the deeply divisive nature of our disagreement, but this is not a creedal issue. Unity, however, is we have sought to thread reassurance through the proposals. For some, this will not be enough and therefore the House of Bishops has committed to look at formal structural provision. For some, the simple fact that I have led this process has meant that they see me no longer in communion with them. I want to assure them that I still believe that we are in communion with one another and whilst I may no longer be invited to eat at their table, they will always be welcome at mine. And if that means that I need to sit outside with the powerless, the marginalised, the lost, then that's where I will sit and I am certain that I will also encounter Christ there.
Speaker 1:So Sarah Malali is saying really, this is an issue that Christians can disagree, but, vaughan, that's not the position of the Orthodox or the evangelical at all.
Speaker 2:No, there was some debate about whether this was a creedal issue. In fact an amendment was brought with that in mind and in some senses that's a distraction. It's not creedal in the sense that you don't find the doctrine of sex and marriage in any of the ancient creeds. Why so? Because there was no doubt about it. It didn't need to be specified in a creed. So in that degree I think you can say it's not a creedal issue. But it is a first order issue and there are plenty of things that aren't specified in the creeds. But we can't just agree to disagree on and when you look at the scriptures, there are some things that come in that category what kind of food you eat and so on that are let's agree to disagree on this one. But when it comes to sexual morality, the New Testament never treats this as a conscience issue.
Speaker 1:So do you think it was a fudge when she said that in her closing address?
Speaker 2:I can't speak subjectively, so who knows what's going on in the heart and what someone means? But if I speak more generally about what was presented to Synod, it was a fudge in that it was without integrity. And again, I can't speak about the hearts, but what they were trying to do was to hold together irreconcilable realities. So they were trying to say the doctrine of marriage has not changed and legal advice has clearly said that actually the teaching that sex is for the marriage of a man and woman is part of the doctrine of marriage. So they're trying to say that hasn't changed. But on the one hand, and on the other hand we are allowing the blessings of same-sex unions, which we know most of them will be sexual. Well, you can't square that circle and in the end they kind of realized they couldn't say the doctrine hadn't changed at all. If you're blessing sexual same-sex unions, you are changing the doctrine of the church. So what they ended up saying is it hasn't changed in any essential matter. So we're still saying that marriage is for a man and a woman and it no essential matter has changed, which is bizarre because it's quite clear that the Anglican Communion is being riven apart by people who regard it as essential, and those who are advocating very, very strongly for change equally don't think this is some small little thing. We all agree this is a big thing.
Speaker 2:So actually, behind all of this is not just debates about how to interpret a few passages of the Bible, nor even different understandings of Scripture and how we approach Scripture. What we've got here are Gospel issues on both sides. So let's recognize we've got people of deep conviction on both sides and of Christian in their minds Christian conviction. We're talking about Gospel issues. On the one hand, it's a question of justice. This must be given for the sake of justice. We need to bless same-sex unions, and others of us say no. There's a Gospel issue here surrounding sin and repentance and we can't meet in the middle over such dramatic divisions.
Speaker 1:Now, you mentioned the wider Anglican Communion just a moment ago and we have people watching us, listening to us, from all over the world and we had an impassioned plea from the Global South Primates Meeting in Cairo around a month ago and the Gaffcon Primates Meeting just a couple of weeks ago in London. Was there any acknowledgement of the pleas from the wider Anglican community, from the front bench of the Church of England General Synod, that this move by them will tear the Anglican Communion asunder?
Speaker 2:One of the most shocking things is how little the voice of the Anglican Communion has contributed to these debates at all. We had Archbishop Sammy speaking in February and making an impassioned plea don't go this way. And then a member of General Synod tried to intervene and say look, before doing this we must consult with all the primates. It was effectively pushed to one side and that is very, very grieving.
Speaker 1:As I watched the debate, the last speech in the debate by our mutual friend Ed Shaw same-sex attracted evangelical Anglican minister from Bristol. And Ed Shaw said there were no crumbs of comfort in the motion that was to pass for same-sex attracted Christians like himself who was part of their commitment to Jesus Christ to choosing celibacy. Let's just have him listen to a couple of moments from Ed Shaw's address.
Speaker 4:Where are the crumbs of comfort for me as a gay man, watching the Church seemingly abandon them, teaching and discipline I have found so life-giving and affirming. I have yet to find a crumb of comfort in these proposals. Back in February, my crumb of comfort were reassuring words from the Archbishop of York pledging that I won't be able to support commending these prayers until we have the pastoral guidance and pastoral provision. I took those crumbs of comfort home. I appreciated them. They have kept me going. I perhaps naively fed them to others too. This time I am walking away, perhaps forever, with no crumbs of comfort at all. Yes, the House of Bishops talk of a new formal, structural pastoral provision, but until there is real action, real conversations, particularly conversations involving the bishops themselves, who seem to be the block to this conversation, there are no crumbs of comfort for me and many, many people like me in this church today.
Speaker 1:Vaughan Roberts, what's your reaction to Ed Shaw's comments there?
Speaker 2:Well, of course, I've been open about the reality that I'm in the same situation as Ed. I've spoken about my experience of same-sex attraction and I feel the same as Ed. I mean, I mentioned earlier. What's been proposed is a pastoral provision for a time of uncertainty and, ironically, I don't know anyone who feels pasted. Certainly those who experience same-sex attraction don't feel pasted by this. So, on the one hand, those who want the affirmation of same-sex marriage, they still haven't got it. So they feel they've got a semi-blessing and nothing more than that.
Speaker 2:But those of us who seek to be faithful to God's word, that the Bible says sex is for the marriage of man and a woman for life, not just those of us who are same-sex attracted, but any of us who are seeking to live a chaste life, this feels as if it's saying you really need and bother. And behind it is a worldview, the modern idea that basically sex is fundamental to life. You can't be content without sex. And there are a small number of people who are called to celibacy or have this particular gift and never find it difficult or find it easy and straightforward, and this is that particular call. But for those who haven't deliberately chosen it, this is really not doable.
Speaker 2:I mean, that is a lie. It's a lie that is right at the heart of our culture's understanding that sexuality is fundamental to your identity and sex is fundamental to your fulfillment. Now, that is not true. But when the church as a whole was saying no, that is not true and the Lord Jesus lived a fulfilled single life and actually the fundamental marriage is the marriage of Christ and His church and ultimate fulfillment is found in that. All that is hugely encouraging. But when even the church is essentially banding those teachings and reflecting what the world is saying that sexuality is fundamental to identity, sex is fundamental to fulfillment, it is very discouraging, not just to those of us who are same-sex attracted, but I've spoken to many single friends who are only attracted to the opposite sex but out of faithfulness to Jesus, they haven't found a marriage partner and they're not having sex and that feels very discouraging for them as well.
Speaker 1:So where are we left in churches in the UK now? Parish Council, parishes, denaries, dioceses. How's it playing out on the ground just a few days after the vote?
Speaker 2:Well, there's a division down the middle and that will play out in different ways in different contexts.
Speaker 2:So many of us feel that we can no longer accept the spiritual oversight of bishops who are leading us in this direction and who will commend the blessings of same-sex unions.
Speaker 2:So many are in the situation that I'm in already, that we're saying we cannot accept the spiritual oversight of our bishops in our diocese.
Speaker 2:I suspect many more will follow. There'll be many who will also feel we can't send our money to support the endorsement of this direction and therefore there'll be new alignments and financial arrangements to support the gospel ministry and the Church of England-Divengeroc Council has announced means of trying to find oversight for those who will feel that they're without a shepherd, without a bishop, and they'll find ways of doing that. And also they've announced the Ephesian Fund, which will be a means of churches and individuals giving money straight to Orthodox churches rather than into diocese. So that's the beginning of what will continue to play out Very hard, of course, for those in mixed churches where there are different points of view, and that's going to be really hard. So all of us need to follow our convictions and follow our conscience. Never go against conscience, but also take account of context, which will mean different people and different churches will respond in different ways, but for all of us it will have profound implications.
Speaker 1:Now, as I read it, the evangelical person is going to find it harder because there are more evangelicals under liberal or revisionist bishops. So I'm imagining many friends, peers of yours, are in more difficult positions than yourself at Sinebs, where you're leading a large church that's traveling well in ministry and finances.
Speaker 2:No, it's undivided true, and that's why we feel, first of all, we mustn't be saying as large as churches, you've all got to do exactly what we can do, because not everyone can, and we need to be making sure we provide as much support as we possibly can for those in more vulnerable situations, because we're in a limbo stage. We were arguing for a settlement that would allow those who cannot travel with this to be able to stay with integrity with our own bishops and not in partnership and not walking together with those who are walking in a very different direction, and two amendments one I've proposed myself and the other, actually less radical than mine, by the Bishop of Durham. Both were rejected, and so what we're fighting for is a way of staying, a structure that will enable us to stay with integrity, without traveling in the same direction and in partnership with others. We're a long way from getting that, but in the meantime, I think we're going to have to deal with irregularity and follow our principles and convictions, and that will be messy in all sorts of cases.
Speaker 2:There'll be a few whose conscience tells them they can no longer stay, and I honor them, and we're thankful for the Anglican network in Europe under the superb leadership of Andy Lyons and the support of Gathcon. There'll be some who go that way. The vast majority are determined to stay and fight, but as we do so, we must be true to our convictions and not compromise, and that will mean a significant degree of irregularity and discomfort and potential difficulty and in that context we need to say all for one and one for all. So the danger is they'll try and pick off more vulnerable clergy and more vulnerable churches, and we need to stand unitedly together and not let anyone pick off the smaller churches or the more isolated individuals.
Speaker 1:What I'm worried about is succession planning. If you're a minister who's poured years and years into a particular flock of people and you've led people to make financial commitments, intergenerational gifts, to provide assets for future Gospel ministry, and then you leave and the care of those people and the assets that you've built up falls into the hands of the revisionists, how do we stop that? What can be done to help that guy?
Speaker 2:Yeah, succession is a big, big issue. So at the moment, let's be clear, officially speaking, the doctor in the Church of England hasn't changed and we're in a limbo period, but the battles will continue in synod and almost 50% of synod are against this. So we're determined to keep fighting and not to assume that we can't find a way of securing succession, and it won't be just those who can't go along with this that will be in vulnerable situations and will require some kind of provision because they can't go along with their bishops. So I'm hoping and trusting there will be some Darsen bishops who will say I cannot commend these blessings in my darsis. And if, as we're assuming, quite soon clergy will be allowed to get ordained while they're in same-sex partnerships and marriages and and will be able to get licensed, if a bishop says, sorry, I will not be able to ordain or license a clergy person in a same-sex relationship, they will be requiring a different bishop. And so at that stage, serious conversations need to be had, and the house bishop said no, we do need to have discussions of structural provision, and that's what we're praying for.
Speaker 2:And we mustn't blink too soon, because first-order difference requires first-order differentiation, and so that's what we must work towards and wonderfully there's a very strong, broad coalition and alliance of evangelicals of different stripes more conservative evangelicals, more charismatic evangelicals, egalitarians, complementarians, traditional Catholics. We're working very well together. It's more than the coalition. It's become a deep friendship and fellowship and we need to keep walking together and saying here we stand and not blink and pray. It's not just about politics. Be faithful to our convictions and hope and trust that some kind of settlement can be achieved, but it won't happen overnight. But certainly your right succession is key.
Speaker 1:Coming out of the Global South Primates meeting a month ago. Nicky Gumbel from Alfa and Holly Trinity Brompton. He was there and there was talk of him and a group of people taking legal action in the secular courts against Archbishop Welby and the House of Bishops. Have you heard anything further on that since the Global South Primates meeting?
Speaker 2:Well, let's see what happens. Certainly, I was actually one of the the signatures to some letters that were sent questioning the legality of what was being proposed and certainly saying that this goes against all proper procedure, and I'm absolutely sure it does go against all proper procedure, but decisions will need to be made as to what to do about that in the light of Synod and others. I'm not a part of the core group that we're making those decisions, but you mentioned Nicky Gumbel and it's certainly been wonderful to have the HDB community very much part of the broader alliance.
Speaker 1:I want to take us to responding to the higher judge, almighty God, a friend of yours and mine, mark Thompson, the principal of Sydney's more theological college. He says the Archbishop of Canterbury's behavior has been scandalous, that the Archbishop has betrayed his ordination vows, that Archbishop Welby has recklessly pursued an agenda contrary to Scripture and the Gospel, despite urgent, repeated warnings from the vast majority of Anglicans around the world. And he says Justin Welby will have a higher judge and, quite frankly, who would want to be in his shoes? I think Dr Thompson's right, but I don't think I've heard a Christian leader speak more strongly critically of another leader than those comments from Mark Thompson.
Speaker 2:Interestingly, in his opening speech, the Archbishop of York spoke about the judgment of God. He said very, very clearly that he's conscious that he will be judged by Almighty God and of course he will be I will be, we all will be and that injected a really important note at the beginning of the debate. It made what followed even more sobering, and certainly all of us, on whatever side, need to be very conscious that this is not about trying to secure our own positions and I'm speaking about those who agree with me now. It's not about securing our own positions. It's not about pragmatism. It's about a deep conviction, principle in the consciousness that all that we do is done in the eyes of Almighty God, our judge.
Speaker 2:And so, if I speak to myself and the Archbishop of York and I speak to myself and those of us who are determined to fight against this, we need to be faithful to the truth, and it will be very costly.
Speaker 2:We also need to recognize we will be judged not just by what we do but how we do it, and we need to be gracious, full of love, and we need to remember very much that those who are in sexual relationships and who own a sexuality that is very different from the kind of lifestyle that the Bible wants us to live by, and there are real partial issues here, and I should have said earlier that behind all this there's a genuine concern to try and deal with the reality that the world has changed and that there are many people.
Speaker 2:So how do we do that? We do need to welcome people better. We do need to acknowledge that there have been prejudicial treatment of people of different sexualities and there are lessons to be learned all over the world. Within the Gapfgon and Global South Community, we need to hold each other to account and help each other on these issues. We're held to account of how we welcome people, how we treat people, how we treat enemies, but also whether we'll be faithful to God's Word. So that's sobering for all of us, I would say.
Speaker 1:Let's just go through the different people groups. What's the word you want to say to the wider Global South Gapfgon fraternity, those faithful Orthodox Christians around the world?
Speaker 2:Well, first of all, I want to say thank you for their support, and although we are, if I say, a minority, it's not a tiny minority. There are many of us still in the Church of England, but we are a minority the vote has shown that in the Church of England, and we're certainly a minority in British culture, but we stand with the 85% of the Anglican world and the communion globally, so that's a huge encouragement and we're grateful for their prayers and support, and we're part of a fellowship and we need their clarity on these issues. I think we can also help them because the world as a whole is changing when it comes to issues of identity and sexuality, and people all over the world, not least through the Internet, are encountering very different ways of thinking, and I think some cultures are less able, hadn't caught up with the reality that the younger people are facing, and so there are lessons to be learned and maybe challenges to be given on both sides about how we relate to these issues, but, above all, we're grateful for their support and their prayers.
Speaker 1:What do you want to say to the evangelical minister within the Church of England?
Speaker 2:Well, follow your conscience, but I hope you'll stay and keep contending. You're not alone and let's stand together. I'm so grateful for the CEC Church of England Evangelical Council all for one, and we're part of a wonderful alliance. So let's find one another, stand together, work together and pray and let's keep doing the work of the Gospel, because we mustn't just be fighting a battle in sin. Let's keep going being faithful to our convictions, keep going in the work of evangelism and discipleship. And I should add, there will be those already who've left, just to finish this one, dominic. There will be those who've already left and others may follow. Let's not fall out. That's always a great danger that those who have different views about how to engage with these issues end up falling out with one another. We belong together. Let's honor one another, respect each other and work together with brethren across the denominations and certainly within different branches of Anglicanism Orthodox Anglicanism.
Speaker 1:What's your plea to the revisionist leader?
Speaker 2:Well, obviously I'm longing that people would repent. I don't think this is the right way, very obviously I think it's going against the Bible, but the sad reality is that there are a very large number of people determined to go in another direction. And so in which case can we not do this better than, for instance, the Episcopal Church, where there was a fight to the death? Really, a winner takes all in the end, and it's years of battle, battle, battle and no one wins. So let's find a way of doing a settlement, which means that we can't walk together and that we can find space for one another because we're not going to agree.
Speaker 2:I long that they would, but let's face reality, we weren't and let's find a way of settlement. Compromise is not the way, conviction is the way, but that is a way of doing differentiation, I think, without fundamental divorce, so that there's a way of, there's a permeability between, very strong space between, but a permeability, of course. What I've longed is that, in time, more and more churches that have gone a revisionist way come towards the Orthodox way, so that the Church of England can return to the glorious truth of the Gospel.
Speaker 1:The Church Society director, Lee Gatis, he's called on the Archbishop of Canterbury to resign. Dr Thompson from Moore College said his behaviour has been scandalous. Do you think the Archbishop has lost the confidence of most of the Orthodox General Synod members, those people who voted no last week?
Speaker 2:I think it goes beyond the Archbishop that the House of Bishops have lost the confidence of those who voted no. There's a lack of trust, not just in the theological leadership, but also the way in which it's been handled and due process has not been followed so that there is a real trust issue theologically and in terms of governance, and that's created a significant crisis.
Speaker 1:Vaughan, why don't I ask you to finish up our discussion by leading in prayer for the Church of England?
Speaker 2:Lovely Father, we depend on you and we ask, please, for repentance for those who are determined to go in the direction that is so damaging. We pray for faithfulness and the confidence to keep going for those who are standing for the truth and great wisdom. We pray for protection for those partially damaged and vulnerable because of what's being said and what's decided, and we long above all for the lost and we grieve that these rouses make it so much harder for us to engage in gospel work. And we pray please have mercy on the nation of England and draw many to the Lord Jesus, and we pray in His name.
Speaker 1:Amen, vaughan Roberts, thank you so much for joining us on the Pastors Heart. Thanks, dominic. That is Vaughan Roberts. He is the Senior Minister of St Ebb's in Oxford and one of the leading evangelical ministers within the Church of England. You have been with us on the Pastors Heart. My name is Dominic Steele and we will look forward to your company next Tuesday afternoon.